Being completely new to this forum I will briefly introduce my self: I am Danish, and - although I understand it - I do not know how to write fluent Swedish, hence my posts will be in English and I will highly endorse any responses being, to the degree it is possible, kept in English as well. I will try my best to comprehend any Swedish responses though. Now, being an atheist I have a few things on my mind, browsing the various posts at this forum. I am sorry for any incorrect translations I may make. If you find that I have misinterpreted any Swedish sentence, be sure to let me know. I will be dealing with various claims on this forum one by one, starting tonight. First up:


>>>Fick en Snilleblixt

http://www.fragbite.com/?threa dID=438479

I strongly disagree with your post "Ateisters bristande logik ang existensen". You said, and I quote:

'Ateistens logik lyder: "Innan jag föddes så fanns jag inte, och efter födseln så finns jag."'


World perspective

You can not speak on behalf of every single atheist. You seem to think that all atheists share the exact same world perspective. You are wrong. Now please, try to refrain from telling me what I think. When you say "Ateistens logik lyder" you are really putting forth a very wrong generalisation. I, for one, do not agree and as such that can not be the logic of all atheists. I also tend to differ on your definition of reincarnation on a very fundamental level.


Reincarnation

I will agree that our existence is as eternal as the universe in which we exist. I quote you once more:


'Att vi finns nu är således ett BEVIS på att vår existens är EVIG och att vi därmed, förutom att vi kommer finnas efter döden, även fanns innan födseln'


Yes, the very atoms (and smaller parts too, that is not of the essence in this discussion, though) that is our body do exist both before and after our birth, and as such we "exist" prior to birth, although scattered into minute atoms. This is a scientific view upon the human existance and I hope you will agree that it is true. If not, I hope we can at least agree that the "foundation" for each of us can be found both before and after our birth. Now, you claim that, and I quote you again:


'Givetvis levde vi i en annan materiell kropp, beroende på karmakontot vi hade då'


You say this without any inclination that it is your personal belief and as such I would really like you to prove that. Your provided link on the subject only informs how reincarnation apparently works, but there is no sight of any proof, as for what I could find. I agree that the atoms by which I consist could very well hail from creatures who walked planet Earth before me, but really - there is no proof what so ever in your post as to how anyone or anything should be able to determine where your atoms hail from. If there is in fact no proof, be sure to label it as being your own belief. You do make one valid point in your section about "karma", "reincarnation" etc:


You say, and please tell me if I have misunderstood you, that it is easier to accept harsh living conditions if you have a reason for having to suffer. This is very true, but that does not make the theory of karma true in any way. It is merely a reason as to why it has become popular. If anything, reasons not supporting the credability of a subject only serves to dispute said credability to me. You present various links to prove reincarnation as being true, but I don't think you realize that every single one of your links does not grant access to any indisputably true facts. Now, I may seem paranoid to you, but really - I could find a dozen of web pages disproving reincarnation. You do not mention a single source I feel truly certain speaks absolute truth, and the only actual scientists you mention all require you to buy a book to really read their possible proofs. This logic may seem desperate to you, but try reversing it. I will supply you with a christian link telling you how reincarnation can not be true:


http://www.godonthe.net/eviden ce/manylife.htm


Now, if you dispute the credability of this link, I think you will see what I am trying to tell you: The internet is a fraudful place. I do not believe anything in which I do not have absolute trust. Just search google for "reincarnation true false" and you will have plenty of hits for websites either "proving" or "disproving" it - and this is exactly the essence of what I am trying to tell you: Unless you can definitively prove something your self by the logic approved by the opposing group of the discussion, don't use it as absolute truth. Anyone can paste some links to support their cause and then be let off without being questioned. But really, if you want to prove anything to me, do so by scientific logic - and do it your self. I can not prove that reincarnation is false, I can only say that it makes no sense with my world perspective, and hence I don't believe in it. I suggest you correct your statements too, claiming to believe in reincarnation, as I saw no indisputable proof within those links.


Conclusively

Now, your final words made me lose all respect for anything else in your post, I quote:


'ATEISTER är de facto BEVISET på REINKARNATION, med tanke på att ingen skulle kunna ackumulera så mycket dumhet och enfald nödvändigt för att bli en ateist under bara ett liv. Det tar flera liv att kultivera sån enorm enfald'


Do you realise the series of mistakes in terms of argumentation you expound here? I shall list a few of them:

1) You try to prove reincarnation by using a frame which already requires you to believe in reincarnation in the first place to function

2) You generalize all atheists

3) You directly relate atheism and stupidity without presenting real proof


To me it also seems you do not respect atheists the least bit, why should they respect your point of view then? You asked, and I quote:


"Vad säger ni, ATEISTER?"


and I will try answering you to the best of my ability.

First off, if you want to have an actual debate treat your opponent with some respect and dignity. Although you may think their view is laughable, you must win the debate by reasoning, not by arrogance. But you do not seem interested in a debate. If you ask me, you do not seem capable of controlling your emotions enough to be on a forum at all. By labeling all atheists morons, you have actually even breached forum rules §7 as for what this discussion goes. If you want an actual debate on the matter, stop obviously harassing your opponent group and start creating a foundation worth arguing on.